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peggyfromwastate
03-28-2011, 02:34 PM
DD15 is a freshman but she took Spanish 1 and 2 in middle school. They go on her high school transcript here (metro DC area), but I'm not sure what will happen when we move after her Sophomore year. She is taking Spanish 3 this year (9th grade).

How many years does she need of a foreign language? Do you need 4? She doesn't want to take Spanish 4, and I think it's kinda a waste of time bc they don't do a good job teaching Spanish here. She's just not getting much out of it. But I don't want to let her drop Spanish if that means she will not get into college. We're talking a STATE school or something here... Maybe a smallish liberal arts but her GPA has already killed her chances of a top tier place, even a lot of the state schools.

Sigh...

Parenting!!

Any thoughts?

ladymoreta
03-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Definitely didn't need four when I was applying. I think most schools were 1-2 years. You should be able to look up requirements for individual schools on their websites. I think the main advantage to taking more in high school would b to earn credit before entering college, or placing into a higher level class.

GreyhoundsRUs
03-28-2011, 02:45 PM
I remember some of the schools that I looked at wanting 2 years of "high school" foreign language...DH went to Northwestern and only took 2 years of a language in HS - I would think that 2 years is fairly common. Did she take Spanish 1 and 2 "at" the high school or is there something on her transcript that shows that she comped out of the first 2 years at her school? Those things would probably make a difference.

I would check with a school or two or the school's college advisor (if they have one).

peggyfromwastate
03-28-2011, 02:49 PM
LOL--- based on her lack of Spanish knowledge I really don't think college credit based on her knowledge is in the future...

Has anyone had experience with earning credits towards high school graduation while in middle school?

DD has earned credits for:

Spanish 1
Spanish 2
Algebra
Geometry

All while in middle school, and all of these were graded and count towards her cummulative GPA here. I just don't know if the school she graduates from will accept the credits from middle school too... It makes is hard to plan for what courses to take next year!! Sigh... And of course I won't know exactly what school she'll be going to until basically a few months before she enrolls...

But is this common througout the country? To earn credits towards high school while in middle school?

peggyfromwastate
03-28-2011, 02:51 PM
I remember some of the schools that I looked at wanting 2 years of "high school" foreign language...DH went to Northwestern and only took 2 years of a language in HS - I would think that 2 years is fairly common. Did she take Spanish 1 and 2 "at" the high school or is there something on her transcript that shows that she comped out of the first 2 years at her school? Those things would probably make a difference.

I would check with a school or two or the school's college advisor (if they have one).

That's why I was thinking she'd need to take Spanish 4. Because then she'd take Spanish 3 and 4 in high school. Here the Spanish 1 and 2 show up on her transcript and the grades she earned count towards her high school GPA, even though they were taken in 7th and 8th grades... It's wacky.

Vanquisher
03-28-2011, 02:56 PM
Ryan is earning credit for HS right now in middle school. I really can't answer your questions though regarding what will count. You dont necessarily need to know the exact school. Can you contact one or two of the most likely districts she'll attend? Most districts have fairly universal policies.


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Vanquisher
03-28-2011, 02:57 PM
I would think that even if her Spanish counts toward high school, it probably wont count toward college, but that's pure conjecture.


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scrub-jay
03-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Middle school credits didn't count for HS (in CA) when I was in MS/HS. I remember most colleges having a 2 year language requirement.

peggyfromwastate
03-28-2011, 02:59 PM
So you think that even if it counts towards completing any language requirement for graduation from high school, that if a college has a foreign language requirement of 2 years at least that it won't accept the middle school credits? Because that's what I was thinking...

I think she should take Japanese for her junior and senior year. But she thinks it's too hard!

alison
03-28-2011, 03:09 PM
If she has an interest in Japanese at all, it will be a breeze! Really! It's so easy to speak!

peggyfromwastate
03-28-2011, 03:12 PM
LOL- Alison you could take up Spanish and be fluent in like 2 weeks. You are gifted!!

German and Japanese scare me!!

peggyfromwastate
03-28-2011, 03:14 PM
Middle school credits didn't count for HS (in CA) when I was in MS/HS. I remember most colleges having a 2 year language requirement.


Well shoot. Chances are DD will be graduating from HS in CA.

So looks like she'll have to take PreCalc after all to get in her math credits then... She's taking Alg 2 and Stat here, but here they count the middle school math towards the 4 years required, so if we stayed here she'd be "done" with math!

Poor girl...

MissCrabette
03-28-2011, 03:17 PM
Peggy, she should be able to ask her guidance counselor. I'm sure she's not the first one in this situation.

I think German would be easier for someone who already speaks English. There are so many similarities, and you can deconstruct words to figure out their meaning. I think it would be much easier than Spanish or Japanese.

alison
03-28-2011, 03:18 PM
No!!! :-)

I mean it! Japanese is totally easy to speak. There aren't any genders, cases, nothing wacko! It's just the writing system that's crazy.

Spanish actually scares me. Two words for "to be?" What on earth?!

oceanchild
03-28-2011, 03:25 PM
Here's the standard Cal State requirements: http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/subjects.asp

I'd assume the middle school classes don't count, but I don't know that for sure.

Cassy
03-28-2011, 03:26 PM
to get into college I'm pretty sure you don't need any. That's generally speaking. School have varying requirements. To graduate from high school, it differs by state. In Ohio I believe you need 2 years of the same language to graduate.

Pollyanna
03-28-2011, 03:27 PM
You need a minimum of two years of the SAME foreign language for state schools and at least three for the more competitive schools. I would be careful with the middle school credits. Our middle school does that as well but the private high school our kids go to do not accept the credits. Three years of a middle school language typically counts as 1 year of a high school credit. No matter what they tell you I would call around to some colleges and double check. Her other option is to take a CLEP test if she is really good at Spanish.

Cassy
03-28-2011, 03:31 PM
yeah I just looked up my alma mater's reqs (state school) and I guess it's two of the same. I had two and two so I could graduate with honors. (in Ohio to be eligible you need to have three of the same or two and two)

corn poffi
03-28-2011, 03:32 PM
I really don't think colleges look at middle school transcripts at all, so I think she'll need 2–3 years of foreign language in high school as well. But, like everybody else has suggested, I'd call specific schools she's interested in to double-check.

mommax3
03-28-2011, 03:42 PM
If it counts for HS credit and is on her HS transcript, it will be viewed as a HS class by colleges, I am pretty sure. Students at my (small, rural) middle school have the opportunity to take Algebra, an Agriculture class, and an advanced Art class for HS credit....the classes show on their transcripts and the grades count toward their GPA.

peggyfromwastate
03-28-2011, 04:00 PM
Yes, Sally, this is what's confusing...

The courses do show up as High School classes. It's not the same as "middle school" spanish. That's labeled "Spanish 1-A" or something like that- it's supposedly half the material covered vs the regular class. The Spanish 1 she took in 7th grade was supposedly equivalent to the high school Spanish 1. And they do show up on her high school transcripts She has earned high school foreign language credit and grades, like it or not, in middle school. Her transcript has the middle school courses listed, and they aren't listed as middles school courses, they are counted just the same as all the other high school credits she's earned.

I don't see her getting 3 years of one foreign language while a high schooler-- that would mean taking Spanish 5 if the colleges don't recognize the middle school years.

It's a confusing thing for me! I tried to ask the counselor about all this before, too. She wasn't helpful... But there is no way to re-take a middle school credit class here in order to "erase" the middle school grade. For instance, if you got a "C" in Spanish 1 in middle school, if you retake it in high school and get an "A", the transcript shows that you have 2 grades for Spanish 1- and it doesn't affect the credits you get. You just have an "A" and a "C" (which sort of helps the overall GPA), but you still only get 1 foreign language credit for taking Spanish 1.

Anyway, if we go to a school district that offers Japanese she says she'd be very interested in taking that after all.

And since Alison says it's so easy, you know! Haha. No one believes you Alison. My Dh tried to take Japanese and he said it was VERY hard. And he speaks Spanish and English. And Dawktor. He speaks Dawktor too...

alison
03-28-2011, 04:02 PM
Hahahaha! :-)

Deebs
03-28-2011, 04:47 PM
I just looked at what is currently required at my alma mater - it's below. I'd say if she's 1 year away from 4 years (but possibly only 2 years, depending on how that credit shows up when she moves to another state), I'd definitely have her stick it out. What is she trying to "make room" for? If it's something more core-curriculum, then I'd possibly consider her dropping it. I just wouldn't want to run into the situation where only 1 of those years counts, for some reason, and limit her choices.

High School Coursework Requirements
Subject Minimum Required Years of Coursework Recommended Years of Coursework
English 4 4
Math 3 or 3.5 4
Social Sciences 2 4
Lab Sciences 2 4
One Foreign Language 2 4
Flexible Academic Units 2 4+

HouseofWool
03-28-2011, 06:44 PM
*I have nothing to add to the real discussion at hand*

Alison - is Japanese inflected like Chinese is?

Michele
03-28-2011, 06:45 PM
In Florida, her Spanish classes would count as her high school credit if the school codes it properly in the computer system. If it's going on her HS transcript then it's HS credit, no matter that she took it in middle school. My mom and sister are both in the FL school system and confirmed this for me. Same with the maths....she won't repeat Algebra and Geometry in HS if she's done them in middle.

lovelight
03-28-2011, 09:05 PM
I agree with Michele. I did Spanish 1, algebra, and geometry in middle school and all counted as high school credits. (I did two more years of Spanish in high school - I couldn't stand going beyond Spanish 3!) I am pretty certain that you are required by high schools to have 2 years of the same foreign language and since it is a requirement to graduate high school colleges assume it has been done by the time you are applying to them....if that makes sense?

DCJenn
03-28-2011, 09:11 PM
Back when I was in the MoCo school system, we needed a language for three years unless you had a substitute- like two years and working on the school newspaper. My ninth grade French counted, as did all of my ninth grade classes, even though it was technically the junior high. No one got credit for 7th and 8th grade classes so that's changed (in the oh, 30 years it's been since I was in junior high!)

My college (private, liberal arts) required two years of a language to graduate but back then you could take Cobol (for those of you who are youngsters: COBOL ( /ˈkoʊbɒl/) is one of the oldest programming languages. Its name is an acronym for COmmon Business-Oriented Language, defining its primary domain in business, finance, and administrative systems for companies and governments.- it's still used in finance, FYI.) or other programming languages and Latin was also an option.

Jenn

Meenah
03-28-2011, 09:50 PM
Frm my kid's experience, two to three years.

alison
03-28-2011, 10:53 PM
Yes! It's inflected. You just tack on endings for questions, past, present, and future. And no gender bs.

madeintaiwan
03-29-2011, 02:31 AM
The UC's [University of CA] require two years, but recommend 3. I took 4 years of Spanish as did both of my cousins. DH took 4 years of Latin in HS. Does she know where she wants to apply for college? I know that the different systems have different requirements. My little cousin went to HS in AZ but wanted to go to a UC which had requirements beyond her basic HS graduation requirements.

peggyfromwastate
03-29-2011, 11:25 AM
She has no idea where she wants to go to college. That is going to be very tricky too since we will probably be moving right after she graduated high school. Maybe she will go to a state school in Washington bc that's for sure the only state we will have residency in even if we don't get stationed there. We will not know where dh will be stationeduntil the winter/spring before she graduates- so that's after applications are due.

???

It seems like a language requirement may be the least of her troubles! Poor kid!!

MrsK
03-29-2011, 12:13 PM
Definitely didn't need four when I was applying. I think most schools were 1-2 years. You should be able to look up requirements for individual schools on their websites. I think the main advantage to taking more in high school would b to earn credit before entering college, or placing into a higher level class.

This. It's been 20 years since I applied to college so I'd definitely check out the current requirements. I had a zillion years of Spanish from grade school through high school -- it was pretty standard for schools in Miami. I am definitely not proficient but I had enough credits that I did not have to take ANY language in college. That was a real benefit for me because I hated my Spanish classes and it freed up my schedule to take classes I wanted to take, pick up a second major, etc.

MrsK
03-29-2011, 12:18 PM
Well shoot. Chances are DD will be graduating from HS in CA.

So looks like she'll have to take PreCalc after all to get in her math credits then... She's taking Alg 2 and Stat here, but here they count the middle school math towards the 4 years required, so if we stayed here she'd be "done" with math!

Poor girl...

I was weak in mathematics too. I took all my college math during the summers at the community college when I was in high school. I know that sounds advanced but really, I was in the the middle of the pack for jr. college remedial math courses and I would have drowned if I had taken math as part of my 4-yr curriculum. I got to opt out of college math other than a statistics course for my major (which I barely passed). Again, it was great having "free" credit hours within which to take electives that interested me.

MrsK
03-29-2011, 08:30 PM
This. It's been 20 years since I applied to college so I'd definitely check out the current requirements. I had a zillion years of Spanish from grade school through high school -- it was pretty standard for schools in Miami. I am definitely not proficient but I had enough credits that I did not have to take ANY language in college. That was a real benefit for me because I hated my Spanish classes and it freed up my schedule to take classes I wanted to take, pick up a second major, etc.


I was weak in mathematics too. I took all my college math during the summers at the community college when I was in high school. I know that sounds advanced but really, I was in the the middle of the pack for jr. college remedial math courses and I would have drowned if I had taken math as part of my 4-yr curriculum. I got to opt out of college math other than a statistics course for my major (which I barely passed). Again, it was great having "free" credit hours within which to take electives that interested me.

BTW, my point here is not how much of any given subject is required to get into college. My point is that if she takes enough of a subject she hates in high school, she may be able to avoid it all together in college. For me, it made my college experience much more enjoyable and helped my college GPA.

DCJenn
03-29-2011, 08:58 PM
Peggy- here's the information from the UW Seattle freshman admission section:



English - 4 years
Mathematics - 3 years
Social Studies - 3 years
Science - 2 years* (two years of lab science required)
Foreign Language - 2 years
Fine, Visual and Performing Arts - 1/2 year
Academic Electives - 1/2 year


Almost all applicants will have satisfied these requirements through high school course work, which is generally defined as that completed in grades 9-12. However, there are several ways to satisfy CADR requirements at the college level. In general, five quarter credits (or three semester credits) at the college level equals one year of high-school study. If you completed a portion of the CADR requirements in high school, you can pick up in college where you left off in high school. For example, if you completed three years of English in high school, you can use one college English composition or literature course to bring your total to four years.


and specific to your question:

Foreign Language: 2 Years

If taken in high school:

Two years of study are required. The two years must be completed in the same language.

The foreign language requirement will be considered satisfied for applicants who complete their education through the seventh grade in school(s) a) where English was not the language of instruction and b) in countries other than Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, the UK, and the U.S.
International applicants who entered the U.S. education system prior to the 8th grade must satisfy the foreign language requirement.

Any natural language that has been formally studied may be used to satisfy this requirement, including American Sign Language (AMESLAN, the language of the deaf community), and languages no longer spoken, such as Latin and ancient Greek. However, neither computer 'languages' nor forms of deaf signing aside from AMESLAN are acceptable.

A foreign language course taken in the eighth grade may satisfy one year of the requirement if the second-year course is completed in high school
If made up through college course work:

For purposes of admission, each quarter of language in college is considered equivalent to one year in high school. Applicants who have never studied a foreign language will need to complete ten quarter credits of a single foreign language. However, an applicant who studied French for one year in high school needs to complete only the second five (5) quarter credits (e.g., FREN 102) or the second three (3) semester credits of a first-year language sequence.

Jenn

peggyfromwastate
03-29-2011, 09:29 PM
Thanks jenn!!!

I think uw would be maybe out of her reach unless she really brings up her gpa. But these standards would be the same for the other state schools.

I don't know why I didn't look on the website. Thanks for doing that research!!

SoonerTexan
03-29-2011, 10:51 PM
I highly recommend taking enough foreign language in HS to avoid it in college. OU required 3 classes, for a total of 11 hours--almost a semester! (Spanish 1 was a 5 hour class). I tested out of Spanish 1 & 2 by taking Spanish 1, 2, & 3 in HS. So worth it.

diggitydot
03-30-2011, 06:06 AM
There are tons of decent schools in WA.

http://www.collegeplan.org/cpnow/links/unilinks.htm

madeintaiwan
03-30-2011, 08:35 AM
I highly recommend taking enough foreign language in HS to avoid it in college. OU required 3 classes, for a total of 11 hours--almost a semester! (Spanish 1 was a 5 hour class). I tested out of Spanish 1 & 2 by taking Spanish 1, 2, & 3 in HS. So worth it.

Now that I recall, I think this is why we all took 4 years of foreign language in HS. None of us had to take a foreign language to get our Bachelor's.

diggitydot
03-30-2011, 08:51 AM
:gaah:

Now I REALLy wish I would have taken Japanese instead of Russian in high school. Talk about conjugation hell.

lovelight
03-30-2011, 10:37 AM
:gaah:

Now I REALLy wish I would have taken Japanese instead of Russian in high school. Talk about conjugation hell.

I wish my high school had offered those! We were stuck with Spanish or French!

peggyfromwastate
03-30-2011, 11:38 AM
I think the quality of Spanish she's getting would preclude her from testing out in college. I tested out of Spanish but I had 4 solid years in high school where we really learned a lot.

She wants to take photography 2 instead of Spanish 4. I'm definitely on the fence about this. She is already taking another art course, and she's taking child development which involves helping with curricul for the preschool program within the school (eyeroll). She's also taking 1 AP class (government) which is very tough (2-3 hours homework a night is the story. Highly doubt that) and she's in honors biology, honors English, and statistics.

I think she has a light schedule but the problem I have with Spanish is that she is not learning anything. She manages to get "B"s on her report card. She has always been interested in Japanese so taking that (or a different) foreign language in college wouldn't be the end of the world....

MrsK
03-30-2011, 12:53 PM
I didn't have to test out of Spanish. I simply had enough HS credits to satisfy the requirement. I never would have passed a test. I'd encourage her to get it out of the way now because there will be so many fascinating classes she'll want to take in college.

madeintaiwan
03-30-2011, 01:00 PM
I didn't have to test out of Spanish. I simply had enough HS credits to satisfy the requirement. I never would have passed a test. I'd encourage her to get it out of the way now because there will be so many fascinating classes she'll want to take in college.


Same here. I didn't have to test out either.

scarlett09
03-30-2011, 01:14 PM
Each college and university handles the foreign language entrance requirements differently. The information should be available on the admissions page of the institutions your DD is interested in. I know that with your moves and college being a little ways off that she hasn't quite decided which places she is interested in. I would recommend doing a quick scan of the admissions webpages of institutions in your geographic area to get a feel for what the foreign language entrance requirements might be. There are sometimes even different requirements within universities; a quick scan of the entrance requirements at my alma mater shows that some of its schools and colleges require no HS foreign language, while others require 2 years.

My views of "testing out" or "AP credit" on particular subjects are this: if you can do it, then great! If you can't, it's not the end of the world. I would also look to see what the graduation requirements are for the school. The "testing out" issue might be null if the institution does not have a foreign language graduation requirement. Again, there are differences within universities - DH and I attended the same university; my college had a foreign language graduation requirement (2 semesters or their equivalent), while his college had no requirement. If the graduation requirement is there, then it may be the perfect opportunity for your DD to explore her interest in Japanese.